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Thread: PC3 vs Rossi chip

  1. #1
    Baby Twin
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    PC3 vs Rossi chip

    Guys, is there any advantage to running both a Dr Rossi chip and PC3? If the Rossi sorts the fuelling, what advantage would the PC3 offer? Conversely, if a PC3 is fitted to a bike with a standard chip, would the Dr Rossi chip offer any advantages?

    Cheers for your help. I'm inclined to buy both and play around to answer my own questions, but I'd love to draw from the considerable experience on this site, too.

  2. #2
    AMA Pit Boss andirsv's Avatar
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    I'd be interested in this answer too!!!

  3. #3
    Baby Twin
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    I've ordered a Dr Rossi chip. He says that a PC3 should be set to a zero map with the chip installed, which suggests that the chip already has the fuelling spot on and that the PC3 will add nothing. (the fuel accelerator pump function may still be helpful however).

  4. #4
    One Liter Duc Eater bryanthegoat's Avatar
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    how can one chip with a set map work on different bikes with different mods a pc3 can be custom set to any bike with any mods powercomander all the way...

  5. #5
    Baby Twin
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    That would be my assumption, too. I'll let you know!

  6. #6
    AMA Pit Boss andirsv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryanthegoat View Post
    how can one chip with a set map work on different bikes with different mods a pc3 can be custom set to any bike with any mods powercomander all the way...
    DrRossi (Alain) custom maps the chip to your requirements buddy!! Each chip os different!!

  7. #7
    Baby Twin
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    Hey, remember that Alain's chip also alters the iginition timing (the PCIII can not), I run both with the PCIII only there to help
    smooth out the fueling from what Alain has done with his chip (which is good enough by itself).

  8. #8
    Superbike Twin Sensei's Avatar
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    Alain has given me afew chips now to try out for him & I have sent a PCIII map to him to play with & send back for me to try with great results ... once you get a custom map done on the PCIII then this will over ride the fuel table written on the eprom but not the timing ... If the ignition has been modified with a more advanced timing curve then you will have a much better performing sysytem over stock ..... No point having the PCIII in the bike if you are going to run it with a zero map may as well disconnect it till you decided to do a Dual fuel table map in as this is the only true way to tune a V-Twin dont let anyone tell you other wise if so then they don't know what they are doing !! Have spent over 4ys developing my 03R myself & there isn't much I haven't tryed to get more power & performance out of it for Drag Racing & open road blasting .
    Stick with the basic's
    1- Air - intake / airbox , filter
    2- Fuel mixture - Throttle bodys , Eprom , timing
    3- Ignition system - Plugs , coils , leads
    4- Exhaust system - Muffler , headers , single-dual link collector /dual system
    5- Gearing - Correct for useage .

  9. #9
    One Liter Duc Eater bryanthegoat's Avatar
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    Well named my master lol

  10. #10
    Baby Twin
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    I knew you guys would be full of interesting and useful information!

  11. #11
    Baby Twin DrRossi's Avatar
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    Ok here is my view on Power commanders
    I am talking about the Milles up to 2003.

    You have got to love the idea that you can alter the fuelling of you engine.
    But how do you know if you should alter the fuelling.

    The general idea is that due to laws engine will not run optimal.
    For sound issues they add a bit of fuel here and there and they put a pipe on only a teenager could suck air through.
    Then they have to think about the rubbish fuel quality in some non euro countries.

    We take out the air filter restriction and dump the exhaust pipe as soon as we can and voila more air in and more air out.
    Aprilia was so nice to think about us and made a second map with the right fuelling in it.
    But a new bike and a worn bike will still have the same maps all over Europe.

    This is how a fuel maps looks like
    Throttle opening in %
    RPM 0 0,57 1,14 1,7 2,27 4,54 6,81 9,09 12,73 16,37 20 23,64 27,27 41,66 56,06 70,45 80,3 90,15
    12000 16 16 19 23 23 24 26 34 43 52 64 78 92 104 114 126 137 146
    11600 16 16 19 21 23 24 26 34 43 52 64 78 92 104 113 126 137 147
    11200 16 16 19 21 23 24 26 34 43 52 64 78 92 104 113 126 137 147
    10800 16 16 19 21 23 24 26 34 43 52 64 78 92 104 118 126 139 147
    10400 15 16 19 20 21 24 25 34 46 53 62 75 85 104 120 131 145 153
    10000 15 16 19 19 21 24 25 31 42 54 61 70 88 105 121 135 149 154
    9600 16 16 16 16 20 23 25 32 46 55 62 72 89 106 127 138 149 156
    9200 16 16 16 16 22 25 25 34 46 55 63 73 89 107 130 142 153 160
    8800 16 16 16 16 24 27 25 35 47 54 63 73 90 108 131 143 154 164
    8400 16 19 19 19 21 22 24 34 49 56 64 73 89 108 129 140 154 159
    8000 16 16 16 16 22 21 29 37 51 56 66 75 89 107 125 135 147 150
    7600 19 18 19 19 27 17 32 39 53 57 65 74 86 104 122 133 144 146
    7200 14 14 20 22 28 16 34 41 54 58 65 74 86 104 121 132 146 149
    6800 14 16 20 23 25 18 34 43 54 59 66 73 87 103 118 129 139 143
    6400 18 22 23 22 22 18 34 43 52 57 64 72 88 105 118 124 127 126
    6000 18 20 22 21 15 22 35 44 52 55 63 72 88 104 114 118 121 123
    5600 21 21 23 20 11 24 38 45 52 56 63 72 89 102 117 119 121 118
    5200 21 21 29 19 15 28 42 49 56 62 70 80 94 106 114 115 115 117
    4800 20 23 26 16 12 30 43 53 62 69 78 90 106 113 119 121 124 130
    4400 23 25 23 14 19 34 46 56 64 73 83 98 116 125 131 133 136 137
    4000 27 31 16 18 18 35 50 59 65 76 88 104 124 132 140 146 147 148
    3600 29 32 16 17 25 38 51 61 69 79 92 109 128 135 138 140 140 142
    3200 30 30 15 18 26 38 50 58 63 69 80 96 110 117 124 126 128 130
    2800 15 14 18 27 30 46 51 57 66 72 80 89 99 103 106 111 115 117
    2400 17 20 29 32 38 54 65 73 88 100 116 124 127 128 128 129 130 128
    2000 20 24 26 34 40 50 58 70 84 92 97 101 105 108 109 111 114 118
    1600 22 25 37 40 48 56 63 69 75 79 82 84 85 89 94 98 101 105
    1200 30 39 49 47 51 56 59 62 67 72 75 79 81 84 88 90 93 96
    800 39 41 48 46 50 55 60 64 68 71 73 77 79 81 85 88 91 94

    If we where to alter that you could buy a PC III and ask a nice dyno operator to make a map.
    In general they stick a lambda in the exhaust and fire away.
    You have to think about with what they compare your gasses to.
    Just the best air to fuel ratio or the best drivability.
    If you have a experienced dyno operator he will use the holes in the manifold and read the mixture there and will adjust cylinders 1 and 2 separate.
    But if you have cylinder 1 spot on and do 2 as well, things have changed in cylinder 1 again so you might want to check that one again.
    By this time the temperature in the dyno room is like a sauna.
    Your back tire is worn and your bike feels it has a real beating.
    Now you take it on the road and you have fresh air and sometimes it rains a bit ect.
    Your fuelling will never be spot on.

    I wanted my bike to drive the best it could so I invested in lots of dyno time and burned a couple of tires and exhaust pipes.
    I tried different manifolds, throttle bodies and all the tweaks you can think of.
    I bought a innovate LM-2 and tried reading my bike on the road.
    I adjusted the values I thought would be the best for me.
    I don’t need to have fuel injected when I am at 10.000 rpm with my throttle closed because I am probably going to brake for a corner or change gear.
    Target AFR
    0 2 5 10 20 40 60 80 100
    500 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5
    750 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5
    1000 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5 14,5
    1250 14,5 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7 Accel fueling
    1500 14,5 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7
    1750 14,5 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7 Cruise fueling
    2000 14,5 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7
    2250 14,5 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7 Decel fueling
    2500 14,5 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7
    2750 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7
    3000 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 12,7 12,7 12,7 12,7
    3250 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    3500 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    3750 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    4000 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    4250 16 14,5 13,8 13,8 13,8 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    4500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    4750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    5000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 12,7 12,7 12,7
    5250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    5500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    5750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    6000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    6250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    6500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    6750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    7000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    7250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    7500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    7750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    8000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    8250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    8500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    8750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    9000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    9250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    9500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    9750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    10000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    10250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    10500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    10750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    11000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    11250 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    11500 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    11750 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2
    12000 16 14,5 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2 13,2

    So I did this with different setups and got quite a library of maps for different applications.
    In the meantime I ruined my joy in driving because every ride was a test ride.
    So if I made you a eprom don’t go spoil it with a dyno map.

    Just fuel you bike up, spoil it with good maintenance and wring it’s neck.
    You will be far better off than finding the last hp.
    Ask Griff for some tips and tricks or let him do it for you!

    Just my 2 cents

  12. #12
    Superbike Twin babutler's Avatar
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    Wow, that explanation makes me feel even better about having purchased your Eprom.

  13. #13
    Baby Twin
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    Amazing stuff. I love this forum.

  14. #14
    Superbike Twin Sensei's Avatar
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    Great info Alain very interesting tables ... One thing I have found also tuning my own bike & other Aprilia's here for a second income is that just having the same pipe / airtfilter combo etc & running the same eprom in all these bikes isn't going to make them all perform indentical something that has become more apparent as I have tryed my setup on afew different bikes now with major gains with 1 bike & above average on a couple more & complete loss of peformance on another ..... Have run my bike without the PCIII with 8 of my 12 eproms the best of which having being DR Rossi's & a German Race eprom that I now use with a Dual PCIII map since I changed my collector again & afew other bits it was the one which worked with my new combo ... If like afew of us that just can't help fucking round with finding the perfect state of tune then be aware , you can not only spend alot of $$$$ trying but also alot of time finding what doesn't as well ! Find a well written eprom like Alains , Garbo's & the FactoryPro & as above just ride the wheels off ya bike it can be afair bit easyer

  15. #15
    Baby Twin
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    Sorry to hijack this thread, but what about the Motty AFR Tuner? http://www.afrtuner.com/

    How well does this fit in, with its dynamic settings, compared to a PCIII and/or DrRossi's chip?

  16. #16
    Baby Twin
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    That looks like a fun piece of kit. Would the sensors just screw into the CO take-offs on the exhausts? I haven't done the CO measurements / throttle body balancing yet. I've seen that I need to order a special part from Aprilia as well as a CO measuring tool. Any and all recommendations welcome. I'm going to wait until after I've done the valve clearances to do all this.

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