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Thread: Another Clutch/neutral problem with a difference!

  1. #1
    Baby Twin
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    Another Clutch/neutral problem with a difference!

    Had my bike ( a 2004 Factory) in to Southern Cross to recifty a totally different fault but they told me that they bled the clutch as it was very 'spongy' which it was. But within a week of them doing that, it now will not go into neutral at all at standstill with the engine running and other gears are very clunky to engage. The lever also goes from being very firm to quite light as I ride.
    I've tried bleeding it several times since but it still will not go into neutral.

    I did notice a 'creaking', 'squeaking' sound as I pull in the clutch lever and I located the source of this noise to the clutch cover on the right hand side moving in and out as I engage/disengage the clutch lever. Is this movement normal or not? The clutch cover seems to have a rubber diaphram around the magnesium cover which is how it is moving in and out, but the creaking sound doesn't sound normal.

    Is it just not bled properly or could it be something more serious?

    Any help greatly appreciated!

    Danny
    Last edited by oakleyspatz; October 30th, 2012 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Evil Twin
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    Are you saying that you can see the slave cylinder moving in and out as you pull the lever??

    Are there any signs of leakage anywhere?

    Mine did creak from the slave cylinder and i was experiencing a tight then gradually getting loser clutch lever, i also lost neutral sometimes when out on it. i had to keep bleeding it or taking my filler cap off and pumping the clutch after say 50miles. I changed it for a oberon slave and havent had any issues since except the lever is a bit stiff.

    I would take your slave off and check for any damage to the seals and its fitted correctly. You can pick slave seal kits up for next to nothing.

  3. #3
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Ali View Post
    Are you saying that you can see the slave cylinder moving in and out as you pull the lever??

    Are there any signs of leakage anywhere?

    Mine did creak from the slave cylinder and i was experiencing a tight then gradually getting loser clutch lever, i also lost neutral sometimes when out on it. i had to keep bleeding it or taking my filler cap off and pumping the clutch after say 50miles. I changed it for a oberon slave and havent had any issues since except the lever is a bit stiff.

    I would take your slave off and check for any damage to the seals and its fitted correctly. You can pick slave seal kits up for next to nothing.
    The slave cyclinder is the small part on the left hand side (as you sit on the bike) down by the gear lever isn't it?
    The part that is moving is the clutch cover which is the saucer sized round part with magnesium written on it on the right hand side as in this photo.

    See:http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0.../photo_05.html

  4. #4
    AMA Pit Boss
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    thats wrong...very wrong. I would call Griff at Aprilia Performance, but too me it sounds as if the the clutch has come apart and pushed the the side casing out.

  5. #5
    Baby Twin hamster86's Avatar
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    that cover shouldnt move at all. thae fact that it is is very worrying. take the cover off. see if you can see anything amiss in there. the locknut shouldnt come undone that holds the rubbed seal/diathram on. i would get that cover off asap before you do any more damage.

    griff is a legend its def worth giving him a call

  6. #6
    Evil Twin
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    Yes the slave is on the left I assumed you had made a mistake sorry.

    Under the cover you have a diaphragm as hamster says, perhaps it is perforated or cracked take the cover off and take a look there shouldnt be any oil getting past the diaphragm

  7. #7
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Ali View Post
    Yes the slave is on the left I assumed you had made a mistake sorry.

    Under the cover you have a diaphragm as hamster says, perhaps it is perforated or cracked take the cover off and take a look there shouldnt be any oil getting past the diaphragm
    I removed the clutch cover and underneath there is indeed a black rubber diaphragm which appears intact and sealed with no oil leaking out. With the cover off, I applied the clutch lever and watched the diaphragm and it does indeed pump out when the lever is applied and returns to it's normal position when the lever is released. I reapplied the cover and tried again and you can quite clearly see the cover bulge out as the lever is applied.
    Please can anyone with a factory, go out and apply the clutch lever whilst looking over the right side and see if their cover does the same as mine.
    If not, what could be causing this? Could there be air trapped somewhere which is doing this?
    The clutch starts off ok(ish) when I ride although neutral is still impossible to find at standstill. But after a few miles, the gears get progressively harder and harder to engage.
    I have bled the clutch from the top and bottom nipple several times and changed the fluid using 5.1 fluid (there was dot 4 in there before when the problem started).

    I'm confused!!

  8. #8
    AMA Pit Boss
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    There is a rod that runs through the middle of the clutch basket , the diaphram is bolted to this rod. It might be possible that this rod is damaged as is travelling too far hitting the casing and pushing it out. However you need to stop riding/guessing and get it seen to before it becomes dangerous or causes permanent damage.

  9. #9
    Superbike Twin
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    It could be the bearing on the clutch push rod. Mine went and I had the same with the clutch casing cover.
    If I remember correctly you just take off clutch casing cover, undo the nut, remove the rubber diaphragm (carful not to tear it) with that removed you should be able to the clutch push rod and the bearing in the centre.

  10. #10
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by estranged View Post
    It could be the bearing on the clutch push rod. Mine went and I had the same with the clutch casing cover.
    If I remember correctly you just take off clutch casing cover, undo the nut, remove the rubber diaphragm (carful not to tear it) with that removed you should be able to the clutch push rod and the bearing in the centre.
    Thanks estranged, that sounds like a probable cause. I'll take a look.
    Danny

  11. #11
    Evil Twin mad biff's Avatar
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    sound like my old problem mate your clutch bearing is fucked ,if its pushing the casing out like that the balls from the bearing are gone and the rod drops down which causes your problem mate

  12. #12
    Baby Twin
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    Well, it turned out to be something really, really simple!! The nut behind the clutch cover was not torqued up correctly allowing the clutch basket to move forward which also damaged the diaphragm from the back. New diaphragm and tightened up nut and all is sweet again!

  13. #13
    Evil Twin
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    Glad you sorted it

  14. #14
    Evil Twin fusebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakleyspatz View Post
    Well, it turned out to be something really, really simple!! The nut behind the clutch cover was not torqued up correctly allowing the clutch basket to move forward which also damaged the diaphragm from the back. New diaphragm and tightened up nut and all is sweet again!
    it worked then dude ..good catch! well done!

    G

  15. #15
    Baby Twin
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    I have a 07 Tuono 1000r that is having similar issues.

    The bike was recently at a shop to get the clutch master and clutch slave cylinders replaced. When I got the bike back it was perfect........for about a month and then the clutch slave cylinder blew a seal and I took it back to the shop. The shop replaced the whole Slave cylinder and it was good, until the next day after work. I warmed up the bike and when I went to shift into 1st gear the bike would not engage into gear. I towed the bike home and now I don't really want the shop trying to work on it anymore.

    When I pull my clutch lever I notice that my case is bulging like mentioned above. When I took off the clutch cover and looked at everything it appears to be good. The lock nut was tight, the rubber diagram was in tacked, the clutch push rod bearing looks great.

    Is it possible that whatever slave cylinder the shop put on is incorrect and has to long of a throw? please help!!!

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