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Thread: E10 fuel

  1. #1
    Baby Twin
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    E10 fuel

    The current 5% ethanol content in pump petrol causes us motorcyclists all sorts of problems.

    It attacks plastic fuel tanks, causing them to distort and dissolve, the residues it creates can also clog carb jets.

    If a bike is laid up for any length of time, it also attracts water from the atmosphere, which then drops out of the fuel and causes further problems.

    Our wonderful government is now considering doubling the amount of ethanol in pump petrol to 10%, on spurious 'environmental' grounds (ethanol production is, in fact, an environmental disaster).

    Initially, the 'E10' fuel will be sold alongside existing E5 fuels. However, it may well replace 'super unleaded' in many petrol stations, and the long-term objective is that it replaces E5.

    Over the next couple of days, I'll be publishing my own response to the government's E10 proposals, together with a link to the Government's consultation site.

    I hope that everyone who read this will help me in getting maximum publicity about this issue. It has widespread implications, and will impact on all kinds of people...including all those who have petrol lawnmowers.

  2. #2
    Baby Twin
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    Having read the governments E10 proposal (available here) I oddly find I don't really have much to object about.

    Provided there is clear indication at the pump that the fuel contain 10% ethanol (the governments current proposal) we will be in no worse a situation than we are now, in fact my biggest gripe about ethanol in fuel is currently when you buy unleaded you have no idea if it contains 0% - 5% or anything in between. I, like many others have made posts here about fuel leaks caused from ethanol. So better labelling can only be a good thing.

    My bigger concern is that after Brexit we will not be bound by EU Directive 2014/94 which from 12 Oct, 2018 will require the ethanol content of the fuels to be listed at the forecourt. so we will be in the same situation we are in now where we have no idea whats going in our tanks. On a plus side they may have to remove the snake oil (Super unleaded) from the forecourts to keep E5 available after the introduction of E10

    The ethanol in fuel debate reminds me of how worked up my dad was when they took his leaded petrol away which in retrospect might not have been such a bad move

    On the flip side I agree with you that Ethanol inclusion for environmental reasons could be considered a "disaster" if they intent to produce it from corn.

    Anyways, in summery, I have no objection to E10 being introduced provided it is appropriately labelled and that low ethanol fuel is still available until such a time that it only affects a very small minority.
    Last edited by rumple; August 31st, 2018 at 02:22 PM.

  3. #3
    Superbike Twin Hertsrsvr's Avatar
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    Do you know why ethanol was added to fuel ? In the late 1980s American corn prices were at an all time low. The yanks thought of a great crack to turn it into ethanol and dilute fuel. 5% ethanol makes your fuel economy dive by 3mpg , that will double with e10. It rots plastic metal copper aluminium. Adding means that the ron is raised , so you buy 95 ron fuel it could be 93 in reality and it burns at a different rate to normal petrol so you have bought 10% which does nothing.
    Jungle is being turned into ethanol supporting raw material, turning the land into desert in 10 years, all the nutrient gets washed out of the land causing flooding and other disasters. 200 million starving and we are turning food into ethanol. Stupid idea.
    Greenys have a lot to answer for just so that 10% of the fuel is carbon neutral. Forget about the starving , forget about wildlife, forget about climate damage....all so farmers can sell corn at 4X the lowest price. And big agriculture can permanently damage the land and rivers and wildlife and in the end nothing is cleaner !
    The government wont have the pumps marked, in the end you tell when a politician lies, his/ her lips move. The problem is why the rush ? Who cares what the fukeu say ! We are better out, unleaded was a bad move because it was rushed without telling manufacturers early enough to avoid problems. In France where E10 has been sold for about 10 years it killed most older cars, and a 15 year old Aprilia will be awful with problem, i have a 1970s ducati that was built with a fibreglass tank that cant be used with E5 ! (I wont use a 45 year old tank) The bike has carbs and wont start with e5 , the timing needs to be changed.
    Last edited by Hertsrsvr; August 31st, 2018 at 03:59 PM.

  4. #4
    Baby Twin
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    Thanks both for your replies...very interesting.

    here's what I've written as a response:

    I write in response to your proposals for the introduction of E10 petrol to the UK road fuel market. While I appreciate the need to clean the UK’s air and reduce carbon emissions, I contend that adding greater quantities of ethanol to petrol is not the correct approach and object to the introduction of E10 fuel.

    Motorcycle owners and mechanics will tell you that current levels of ethanol in petrol are already too high: the issue of plastic fuel tanks, pipes and carburettors being damaged or destroyed by ethanol is well documented. Similarly, when machines are laid up, the water absorbed by ethanol causes problems when they are recommissioned.

    The issue goes beyond motorcycling. Many mainstream cars have fuel systems unsuitable for E10, and it will cause serious problems for the owners of historic vehicles. It also impacts on garden and forestry machinery: any petrol-driven machine that is only occasionally used or has a plastic fuel tank is likely to be adversely effected by this fuel.

    A further concern is that the declining number of filling stations in the UK are already under pressure to provide a wider range of fuels from a limited number of pump positions. LPG, CNG, and even electricity, are joining diesel and petrol as mainstream fuel choices. There is a real risk that pumps and tanks currently dispensing clean-burning Super Unleaded petrol will be switched to E10.

    It is disturbing that E10 is being billed as environmentally-friendly. Ethanol is essentially ‘fake’ green fuel. The Government’s enthusiasm for it is unwarranted.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/austria/Gl...iesel_2011.pdf

    A tonne of CO2 generated by the combustion of ethanol has exactly the same climate impact as a tonne of CO2 generated by the combustion of petrol or diesel. But the production of ethanol from plant matter, particularly where tropical rainforests are cleared to make way for commercial crops, actually removes natural carbon sinks from the environment, and the associated habitat damage is devastating. The ethics of switching agricultural land away from food production to road fuel so some dubious ‘target’ can be met are highly questionable.

    Users of fuels with increased ethanol content report a commensurate increase in fuel consumption: to which wastage must be added all the spoiled fuel that will be thrown away, and the resultant increase in emissions of unburned hydrocarbons to the atmosphere.

    I, like many others, am now purchasing fuel additives to mitigate the worst effects of ethanol in petrol. These additives are in themselves probably environmentally harmful, but there is little option.

    If the Government wishes to make a real improvement in air quality through road fuel, then it should consider mandating hydrotreated vegetable oil (HVO) as a replacement for diesel. This is made from vegetable or animal waste, and can be used in most modern diesel vehicles in any concentration up to 100 per cent. There a genuine reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from its use, and an additional improvement in air quality because as a synthetic fuel it has cleaner combustion qualities than mineral diesel. Its manufacture also removes potentially damaging material from the waste stream, and using it to replace diesel will be more effective than any tinkering with the content of petrol because far more diesel than petrol is burned as road fuel.



    Feel free to borrow all or any of the above to create your own response.

    And send it here:

    LowCarbonFuel.Consultation@dft.gov.uk


    Thanks Everyone!

  5. #5
    Superbike Twin Hertsrsvr's Avatar
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  6. #6
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hertsrsvr View Post
    PIAGGIO recommends running aprilia's 4 stroke motorcycles on E5, that is madness seeing as what E5 has already done to our tanks and associated pipework

  7. #7
    Superbike Twin Hertsrsvr's Avatar
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    Piaggio doesnt expect a bike to be running out of warranty. lol

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